We’ve already reached the seventh episode of season one of the Psychedelic Invest Podcast.

In this episode, Charles Patti of MY Self Wellness joins host Bruce Eckfeldt to talk about ketamine and ketamine-assisted therapy. Charles shares his own personal story of healing and how ketamine (and other psychedelics) can play a role in the betterment of society as a whole.

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You’re listening to the psychedelic invest podcast where we speak with founders, CEOs, investors, advisors, experts and thought leaders in the brave new world of psychedelics and entheogenic medicines brought to you by psychedelic invest, bring you unparalleled psychedelic investing data and analysis. Psychedelic invest is the industry’s leading resource for those looking to invest in the burgeoning psychedelic industry. For more information and to access all of the podcast episodes, check out our website at psychedelic invest.com/podcast And now here’s the host of the psychedelic invest podcast Bruce exiled.

Welcome, everyone. This is the psychedelic invest Podcast. I’m Bruce Sackville. I’m your host, our guest today is Charles patty. He is the brand ambassador at myself wellness, we’re going to talk about the world of psychedelics, specifically ketamine, and how ketamine can be used in a therapeutic way, how it works, how it relates to other psychedelics, and really kind of where we are, as an industry as therapeutic models. I think as most people know, a lot of these things are still in clinical trials and trying to figure out how we get them, actually to market. Ketamine is one of these interesting areas that it is prescribed bubble, it is available in various forms, and people are using it for interesting and impactful results. And we’re going to talk to Charles about what they’re learning and why they’re focusing in this area and where it’s gonna go. So with all that, Charles, welcome to the program.

Hey, Bruce, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

Yeah, it’s my pleasure. So before we kind of dive into the world of ketamine and psychedelics, and myself wellness, let’s get a little background. How did you get into the space? What was the personal background, give us the story.

So I’ll go ahead and I’ll tell you a little story. And it’s about a guy who suffered from addiction issues, and it was an alcoholic for over 20 years, and he was self medicating depression, anxiety, and post traumatic stress disorder. And you know, and not just self medicating with drugs and alcohol, but also food and women and scratch off tickets, and pretty much anything that would take him out of out of the place where he was at. And, you know, this person is me. And psychedelic medicines actually saved my life. And it was through therapeutically using psilocybin, mushrooms, DMT, MDMA, and ultimately, ketamine, I actually alleviated all of that stuff out of my life with meditation and healthy lifestyle changes. So if it wasn’t for psychedelic medicines, I actually wouldn’t be having this conversation with you right now.

Yeah, personal experience. It’s strong. What did these substances actually do for you? And it sounds like you kind of experimented and tried various kinds of compounds, substances and various kinds of ways. What did you learn from all this? And what was the insight that really got you, you know, interested in pursuing this professionally?

Well, you know, about eight or nine years ago, I was not living by spiritual guidelines, and I was addicted to drugs and alcohol. And I actually had a ketamine experience that wasn’t in a facility like this one, and it was actually ketamine and MDMA. And I, I skyrocketed out of my body into space where I was with some higher dimensional beings, and Jesus was actually there. And, and I, I’m not a religious person, per se, I’m a very spiritual person. But, you know, this experience, the message I received that night was I really needed to get my life together and stop abusing myself the way that I had been doing. And, you know, this night didn’t exactly change my life completely. But I came out of it a much different person, I had always been agnostic and thought it was great to, you know, believe in something, and I wanted to believe in something, but I’ve always been more of one of those, you know, I got to see it to believe it kind of guys. And this was really my first burning bush experience from psychedelics, you know, to with a lot of self work and continuing my psychedelic journey with Dimethyltryptamine and psilocybin mushrooms. I actually had a I had a six gram mushroom experience where I went out into the universe, and I became one with everything. And I became one with God, the Creator of everything, source, whatever you’d like to put the label of it on. And I knew that we were all connected, and that we were all a part of this thing called consciousness. And when I came back down from my experience that night, I was still having some struggles in my life with addictions and substance abuse issues. And when I came out of that experience, I realized that every time that I was taking these substances, and I was poisoning myself, I was really poisoning a piece of God. And it was one of these, these shell shocked experiences where I was incredibly emotional, and there was a lot of apologizing to the universe or God or whatever you want to call it going on. And it really propelled me to start, you know, taking better care of myself and you know, psychedelic medicines really gave me the ability to love myself, which is something that I had never done before. And they gave me the ability to love myself enough to actually want to start eating healthier and exercising and meditating. And you know, doing all of these healthy lifestyle changes that really propelled me into the person that I am today.

Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it’s interesting. I mean, I’ve heard various kind of versions of the story, it’s both kind of allowing you to love yourself, right? There’s this kind of ability to accept who you are, and your situation kind of dissolving a lot of the kind of the fear and anxiety, but there’s also this kind of connection. So it’s like you realize yourself is not just what you thought yourself was, or your, I guess, physical body, like it connects you to so many other things, you know, whether it be spiritual, whether it be its religious, or whether it just be kind of universe and energy and nature. So so how do you kind of bring together the connectivity of like, I am bigger or greater than I am, but also, then I’m kind of more aware of my own kind of person. I mean, how does this actually impact the way you kind of make decisions and think about yourself in life?

Well, well, my personal opinion is that everything is made of energy, I actually had an experience where I saw everything break down to quantum mechanics, and everything was humming at a vibratory state, and I saw everything break down the energy, which I was a part of. And once you have an experience like that, or once I had an experience like that, I realized that like, you know, there’s no real getting away with anything, it’s, you know, it’s like, it’s like, you’re a part of it all. And that, you know, we’re all connected. And we’re really like all a part of this one thing, this one greater consciousness, and that it really made me look at people differently, and made me look at situations differently, once I felt this connectedness. And I knew that we were all connected, I had a love for other people that I had never experienced as well, you know, I was very insecure for a lot of years in my life. And I used to be not the nicest person all the time. And I would like, you know, walk into a room and see if people were looking at me funny, or, you know, and I would project back towards that. And it was all because of my insecurities. And once I figured out that we were all connected, it really made me love everybody else. And it made me really just want to keep focusing on healing myself. So ultimately, I could get to a place where I can help others in their healing journey as well.

Yeah. And so So tell me about the business. How did you go from having this experience this kind of personal transformation to, you know, actually taking some steps to bringing this to other folks creating, creating an organization and a business around this. So

I was actually in the electronics industry before we started this company. And I was working for a PR firm and some other publications selling ad space. And I had actually gone to Mexico for our trade show. And I was out at dinner with a bunch of CEOs from these major companies. And I’m asking them if they know about psilocybin and DMT. And when I got back from that trade show, I knew that I wasn’t in the right field, and I wasn’t doing what I was supposed to be doing. So I actually talked to my fiancee, Christina, who is actually the owner of my cell phone us. And I said, you know, listen, if I don’t use what helped me to help other people, it was a waste of 20 years of my life, because I never thought that I was going to have a good quality of life. And I never thought that I was going to be free from all of these things that were holding me back. And you know, these medicines saved my life. So she was pregnant with our son, Charlie, who’s actually about a little over two and a half now. And I did the unthinkable and said, So listen, I want to quit my job. And can we please take a leap of faith and open up a Wellness Center, you know, where we can start doing yoga and meditation and qi gong classes. And hopefully, ultimately, we could get into ketamine therapy one day, because I know what positive effects that it had on me, you know, because it did take away my depression and my anxiety briefly, I just didn’t do it the way that I was supposed to be doing. And so the effects weren’t long lasting. But anyway, through the synchronicity of the universe, Christina was doing esthetics at that time, and I thought we might need a medical director for that. So I reached out to a friend of mine who I bumped into, and I said, you know, hey, do you think we need a medical director for these machines she’s going to be using and he looked at me, and he’s like, Well, why don’t you ask me to be your medical director? You’re on site. Okay. Sounds great. So he actually came from a tour of the facility. And at the end of the tour, he looked at us and he’s like, Have you ever heard of ketamine before? Yeah. And I was like, Yes, I have heard of ketamine because it actually helped save my life. And he’s like, Alright, great. He’s like, Let’s do ketamine. And I was like, This is amazing. So, so, so that was our original medical director. He’s actually no longer our medical director anymore, because then Dr. Andrew Ferber is our actual medical director now, and he actually came in because we had a mutual friend who’s interested in what we were doing and had heard about it. Well, Dr. Ferber, you know, had his first LSD experience in 1957. And you know, he’s been a psychiatrist for over 60 years a meditator for over 50 years taught meditation on five continents. He lived with Osho for 20 years. He was, and he was, you know, personal friends with rom das and Timothy Leary. And I was like, what? Gosh, wouldn’t it be amazing if we could work with this guy while he’s sitting here telling me these amazing stories? And at the end of the conversation, he looks at me and he’s like, so what do you need me for? And I was like, No, it’s like, so it’s just synchronistically. One thing after the next, you know, and then like, even from our nursing staff, our nurse Jessica heard that we were going to be doing yoga classes. And she was a yoga instructor. So she came for that. And Jessica was actually, you know, going through some things on her own personal journey where she was suffering from depression, anxiety and a bunch of other stuff. And so when she heard about the ketamine, she’s like, you guys know, I’m a nurse, right? So Jessica, was really interested in doing the ketamine treatments as well. And like since and you know, we’ve done a documentary about this, and she’s very open with her personal story. So that’s why I’m talking about this. But, you know, Jessica got off of like four different medications, quit drinking alcohol, quit smoking cigarettes, and she’s lost in an incredibly large amount of weight since she did her treatments. Our therapist had I got food poisoning one night, I ended up in the back of an ambulance, and it was her husband, who was taking care of me. And I started telling him about the business. Next thing, you know, you know, he’s like, Hey, my wife wants to get into psychedelic therapy as a therapist. So she comes in, and it was just like, the universe just kept doing one thing after the next. So it’s really a beautiful thing. How everything happened for us.

Yeah. Sounds like the universe was gonna lining these things up for you. Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about Kennedy. Just so we kind of understand like, what is it? How does it work? How does it relate to some of these other psychedelics I mean, we kind of loosely use these term psychedelics, but there’s many different kinds of plant medicine, animal medicine, lab medicines, that kind of, you know, compounds that have been developed and they interact very differently with our nervous system and brain system. What give us kind of a summary of ketamine and how it relates to some of these other ones.

So ketamine is an anesthetic. It’s it was actually FDA approved in 1970. It’s the safest, least toxic anesthetic on the market. So yes, you know, I’m sure people have heard that they might use it on animals, which they do, because it’s so safe, but they actually also use it on toddlers and, you know, all kinds of different things out there. If fever if you were in the back of an ambulance, and they were trying to sedate somebody, they would use ketamine on you. So it’s, it’s an incredibly safe medicine. And the funny thing is, is that it was FDA approved as an anesthetic. But then people were going in for surgeries, and they were having these experiences where they weren’t depressed anymore, and they didn’t have anxiety. So they started doing clinical research behind it and found out that it was doing amazing things for depression, anxiety, PTSD, and a string of other things. Ketamine, as funny as it is, say, we call it psychedelic therapy, but it’s actually not classified as a psychedelic ketamine is actually a dissociative. And the reason this is psychedelics typically work on the serotonin receptors in the brain, where ketamine actually works on the NMDA receptors in the brain. So it’s, it’s that’s how it got, you know, it’s used as an FDA approved anesthetic, and then people were having profound psychedelic experiences from it, which are incredibly therapeutic.

Yes. And so what’s the difference in the experience of, you know, psychedelics, if if people have, you know, and psilocybin or some of these things, and they’re getting all these visions and kind of psychoactivity this, the ketamine doesn’t have that element, or what’s the difference in terms of the phenomenal experience,

okay, so I would honestly put it for people that are familiar, a breakthrough experience on DMT, and an intramuscular shot of ketamine in the same general area. So it’s very relatable to DMT or an Ayahuasca session, but it runs roughly about an hour long. You know, we have people at the facility that say that they meet God during their treatments, people that say that they would speak with deceased relatives during their treatments. Sometimes people will go out into the cosmos and meditate with deities. One of my friend’s wife’s who we treated, who said that she was in deep space meditating with Jesus and Buddha during one of our treatments. So this is incredibly profound therapeutic medicine that has a lot of science behind it as well that it’s healing the neuro pathways in the brain. So like, whenever we’ve had any kind of traumatic experiences in our life, our neural pathways actually get damaged. And when the neurons are trying to flow through these pathways, they actually start bouncing off the walls which causes people to suffer from depression, anxiety and PTSD. Ketamine is actually going in, and it’s remapping and restructuring your neuro pathways, sprouting new dendrites, causing new neuroplasticity or new neuro connections in the brain. It’s also been scientifically proven that it’s helping the brain create more dopamine naturally, so we’re getting people off antidepressants, benzodiazepines, anti psychotic medications, street drugs, alcohol, and much more

now, and what is the let me just kind of walk us through a session like if someone comes in for a ketamine session, what did they go through? What’s the point? So it’s looked like so

what we do is we actually do six treatments on people as our typical package and protocol at our facility. And this is because there’s an accumulative effect of the medicine. So we’re talking about literally remapping and restructuring your neuro pathways. And this happens for the hour that you’re in your session, and then typically for a short window period of time after that. So it’s through the accumulative effect of six treatments that were getting people to an amazing place in their life, what would typically happen is as you would come in as a part of this package, you get three meetings with our psychiatrist, one on one therapy to help pre and post integrate the experiences. And each session lasts roughly around 45 minutes to an hour. And we run these sessions two times a week over a three week period, or one time a week over a six week period. And with this protocol, and with the way that we’ve been doing things, we have an astronomical success rate of helping people get away from the pharmaceutical psych meds at the facility. And there’s really, you know, in my eyes with all of the healing I had from different psychedelic medicines, not only was one of the most profound ways that I healed because of the actual profound experiences, but ketamine did for my mood, and my demeanor, and my depression and anxiety, what none of the other medicines really did as much for me, I had some incredibly profound spiritual healing experiences through psilocybin and DMT. And these other psychedelic medicines, that ketamine took me from the peaks and valleys that I was going through in my mood on a daily basis, and brought me to the most cool, calm, centered and collected place I’d ever been to. So it was really just the icing on the cake for the end of my psychedelic journey. And since I’ve finished my treatments over, you know, around two and a half years ago, I actually haven’t done any more treatments and I haven’t actually used any psychedelic medicines, because it really just got me to the place in my life where you know, as Alan Watts would say, you know, you psychedelic medicines are like a telephone receiver, you pick up the receiver you put it to you here, you get the message. And then it’s important to put the receiver back down and apply what you’ve learned to your life and apply brought me to that good place where I’ve really just been applying everything to my life and trying to manifest things to help other people.

Yeah. You mentioned you’ve got, you know, other kinds of programs or other facilities. I mean, are you integrating these yoga, mindfulness meditation, these other things into the ketamine process are these are kind of standalone like standalone services or pas that people go down?

So the ketamine is a tool, the ketamine is a catalyst, just like all psychedelic medicines, okay. And if the medicine is great, the medicine does its job, the medicine will heal the neuro pathways, it’ll take the depression and the anxiety away. But as cliche as it sounds, if nothing changes, nothing changes. So you know, I tell people ketamine is like, it’s like a Ctrl, Alt Delete for the old program, the program that no longer serves us anymore. It shuts the mind down, and it allows you to put a new program in the place. So we teach people about meditation, breathwork, healthy lifestyle changes, eating habits, yoga, and all of these things, which are the real recipe for long term success with the medicine, you know, ketamine gives you the time to grab the reins of your life and really get a hold on things and feel that much better. And because people feel that much better, it really opens the door for them to start practicing all of these new healthy lifestyle changes in their life.

And what do you find as being kind of the most successful or who gains the most from this process in terms of situation was about someone suffering from whether the work they’ve done before? Are there any contributors to better and worse outcomes?

So we’re treating depression anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, addiction issues, OCD, bipolar, it there’s actual ketamine has actually been used for pain management as well, because it’s actually just resetting receptors in the brain that make us experience pain and, and we’re helping people get off of their opioid medication sometimes, or that time, sometimes people will come in for mental health issues. And then like two or three treatments, and they’re like, I got in a car accident 10 years ago, and my shoulder has been in excruciating pain for a decade. And now it doesn’t hurt anymore. What’s going on? So, you know, I tell people, I feel like a snake oil salesman sometimes because because I’m just like, it works for this. And it works for that. And it works for that. But it really actually does. And, you know, the amount of healing that’s happening out of this facility is really phenomenal. You know, I’ll give you an example is we actually had a gentleman who, who hadn’t left his house and almost five years, he I mean, he would go to the grocery store, and he would get out to get his basic things. But he was very isolated. You know, he was on over 20 years worth of Xanax, and he was drinking himself to sleep every single night. And after around his second treatment, he came in and he’s like, I’m weaning off of my Xanax. After his third treatment, he comes in and he’s like, I quit drinking. He’s like, I didn’t come here to quit drinking. I just feel so good. I don’t want to do it anymore. After his sixth treatment, he bought a plane ticket and went on vacation. And I’m actually still friends with this gentleman. And it’s been over a year since he finished his treatments, and he just took another vacation. So that’s one of the great things is these can be some very long lasting effects with the medicine. As long as you start to do the other healthy things in your life. There’s a company that actually just published a study that they did out of Canada, and it was with AUD, which is alcohol use disorder. And I just want to let everybody know that when people go to a 28 day stay in rehab, and then they decide to go to Alcoholics Anonymous for the rest of their life, there’s a three to 5% chance that people will have long term sobriety under their belt. Now with this company that just did this study, they actually just found that after six months from doing these ketamine treatments, 86% of the people in the study had not had one sip of alcohol. So when we’re talking about the success rate of helping people stay sober from substance abuse issues, ketamine is going to be the game changer as well. A lot of people don’t realize, but Bill Wilson, who was actually one of the cofounders of Alcoholics Anonymous, actually used LSD in his own personal healing journey, during his depression, and it was a really a Bella Donna extract experience that he had in a detox, that he went into this, you know, profound state where he was seeing visions of the future with a community of alcoholics helping each other stay sober. So a lot of people don’t know. But Alcoholics Anonymous was literally spawned from a psychedelic experience.

Exactly. So obviously, a lot of possibilities and a lot of great outcomes for folks, what are the downside? What are the risks, are there any, you know, either concerns or things you need to be careful of, or, you know, side effects, things that come along with this experience.

So I think that one of the biggest concerns that you know, that that arises for everybody that I’m working with here and myself on this is that everybody that works at our facility, it’s our purpose to do what we’re doing. It’s our purpose to help people heal, it’s our purpose to be of service to humanity. And every single person that works here has also has firsthand experience healing with the medicine. That being said, you need to vet the places that you’re going if you do decide to do ketamine therapy, because you know, there’s a lot of places that aren’t doing things, the way that it should be done with, you know, the follow up. And the integration, integration is such an important part of psychedelic therapy. And if you don’t have somebody to integrate these experiences that you have, with properly, it can actually set you back even further than you know than when you started in the journey. So, you know, I think that ketamine is great, and the medicine works. But there’s a lot of other instrumental tools that go into this that people need to know about, like the healthy lifestyle changes, the meditation, all of the other things need to be taught about. So we’re not just relying on the medicine, because like I said, the medicine is just a tool. It’s just a catalyst. It’s what you do after you take the medicine that really, really counts in your

life. Yeah. And I mean, tell me about putting together to click the clinic and the work that you’re doing, or the facility that you’ve put together, what’s gone into it, like, how did you kind of design things? Or what what was your intention in terms of creating the actual facility, the location and the experience that people have?

So when we went into this, we I sat down with Christina and I was just like, I wouldn’t want to have a psychedelic experience in a doctor’s office. You know, like, that doesn’t sound appealing to me. A lot of people don’t even like going to the doctors, you know, and there’s some trauma that might have, like, you know, spawned them not wanting to go to the doctors in the first place. So we are a medical facility that is the farthest feeling away possible from being at a medical facility. We’re more of like a day spa here, where we have these beautiful recliner chairs and all of these personal rooms. We have an amazing integration room that Christina designed with big couches and diffusers and meditation, music playing and, and you know, just to really give people that comfortable feeling of walking into this facility. You know, one thing that we had heard from people that had gone through treatments at different places was that, you know, after they were done with their treatments, they were kind of ushered out of the building. And they were still pretty disassociated from the medicine. So they weren’t grounded. And this was very uncomfortable, which could be traumatic for people as well. So we wanted to make sure that we had this safe space for people when they were done with their treatments in the room that they could be ushered into the integration room and have their healing continue to happen. One thing that we’re also doing different here that then it’s happening at a lot of clinics is we actually started doing group assisted ketamine therapy. And the reason that we did this is because, you know, I feel that we’re all connected and I feel that we’re all one at the end of the day and you know, people that can’t afford ketamine treatments at the regular price at clinics need to have an option that’s a little bit more affordable for them. So we actually do work with a financing company that we can help people get financed with. But we also dropped the price of our ketamine treatments down like 60%, almost by doing group assisted ketamine therapy, where we clear out our integration room. And so on Tuesday afternoons, they meet once a week, over a six week period, you don’t get all the personalized psychiatry and therapy, you do still get a meeting with our psychiatrist. And our therapist is present to run a healing circle after these treatments, but we basically put anywhere from six to 12 to 14 people in a room together, and they all go off on these journeys simultaneously, and then integrate it back with each other. And you know, a lot of people really actually like it, because it gives them a sense of community, you know, and people to actually be on this healing journey with you. And I think one of the most important things about this is that this is to your healing journey. If you’re thinking about doing psychedelic therapy, and using it for a benefit in your life. Remember that this is your healing journey. And when it’s, you know, psychedelic therapy is different from a lot of other typical types of therapy, because there’s no one size fits everybody, it’s what’s going to work for you best. So you know, here at myself aloneness, we’re really more about empowering our clients, asking them, you know, like what’s working best for them and helping tailor every single, you know, even protocol per individual. You know, with psychedelic medicines, there’s no one size fits everybody when it comes to doses. So we do have, we have a basic protocol that we do run for psychedelic therapy. But every once in a while, you’ll have 120 pound woman that needs to be dosed heavier than 250 pound guy, because the real magic of the medicine is happening when people are in these disassociated states. So rather than homogenizing, a protocol to, you know, an amount of milligrams per kilogram, which we do have a basic outlier for, there’s a lot of questions that go into what we do here where we ask people about their experience, did you disassociate? Did you have a profound experience? And that’s how our medical staff can really tailor the protocol per individual and move forward to specifically get people into the psychedelic states?

Yeah, I think one of the challenges I’ve certainly talked to people about is, you know, given the the nature of the therapeutic process, right, you’re you’re going into a facility, it’s fairly intense, you have staff members helping you the psychiatric help, right, and think counseling help me how do we scale this, you know, given the potential application of these therapies to a fairly significant or a broad range of conditions and the, you know, the number of people that are suffering from these conditions? Like how does it look to really scale this thing? I mean, if you like, how do you plan on scaling your business? And then what does it look like from an industry point of view?

Well, so we already have our sights out on, we’re in Bonita Springs, Florida right now. We’re gonna we have our views over on Miami in the near future. And the thing is, is that we there’s a couple other gentlemen that I’m working closely with Adam capes, and Daniel Cohen, and they’ve actually started the ketamine coalition. And this is basically going to be a an organization to really set that gold standard, and make sure that people are doing things properly. And for everybody that’s in this field that does ketamine therapy, to be a part of, of an organization that will say that you’re doing things properly correctly, and that you’re really taking care of your clients. And this is more than just a turn and burn scenario and putting that extra care and everything you know, and as far as really moving forward and scaling. There’s a lot of opportunity in this field. Because in order to get into the other kinds of psychedelic therapy when we’re talking MDMA assisted therapy, and we’re talking about psilocybin in the future, and all of these things, you’re gonna need a facility like these to actually do these treatments out of and of course, everybody will have to be SMAP certified, etc. But, you know, moving forward and scaling, the more treatment facilities that were set up and doing properly with ketamine assisted therapy, it does open up that door to start with all of these other healing modalities. So you know, like, people say, I’m a dreamer, and that’s perfectly okay. But I am manifesting my own reality and I want to have facilities all over the world eventually. I think that this is more than about psychedelic medicines. This is literally about the transformation of humanity.

Got it. Charles, this has been a pleasure if people want to find out more about you more about myself wellness, what’s the best way to get that information?

So you could go on my LinkedIn at Charles Paddy, as the brand ambassador of myself wellness, we are on Facebook under myself wellness as well. Our website is www.my self wellness dot center, and you’d Welcome to go check us out there. If you actually wanted to just go ahead and give us a ring our number is 2399 In 089958, and we are once again in Bonita Springs, Florida.

Awesome. I’ll make sure that all that information is in the notes here so people can get it. Charles ism and a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time today.

Bruce, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure on my hand as well.

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