For the second episode of the Psychedelic Invest Podcast, host Bruce Eckfeldt had the pleasure to talk to Chris Witowski. Chris Witowski is an accomplished chemist with over 15 years of drug discovery and formulation experience. He co-founded Psilera in 2019 and currently serves as the CEO of the company.

Chris’s work with Psilera has them working on next-generation CNS drugs that target mood and addiction disorders.

It’s a great conversation and we hope you enjoy learning about Chris, Psilera, and everything that we can expect from the future of human health.

New episodes of the podcast will be released weekly. Stay tuned and subscribe to be notified when a new episode is published. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and everywhere podcasts can be found.

Transcription

Introduction
You’re listening to the psychedelic invest podcast where we speak with founders, CEOs, investors, advisors, experts, and thought leaders in the brave new world of psychedelics and entheogenic medicines brought to you by psychedelic invest, bring you unparalleled psychedelic investing data and analysis. Psychedelic invest is the industry’s leading resource for those looking to invest in the burgeoning psychedelic industry. For more information and to access all of the podcast episodes, check out our website at psychedelic invest.com/podcast. And now, here’s the host of the psychedelic invest podcast. Bruce Eck Feld.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Welcome, everyone. This is the psychedelic invest Podcast. I’m Bruce segfault. I’m your host, our guest today is Dr. Chris switalski. He is co founder and CEO at Solera. We’re going to talk to him about the work they’re doing in psychedelics in developing drugs, developing formulations molecules to really help provide very kind of specific targeted molecules to help with these conditions and to provide solutions. This area obviously, we’re very early stages in the psychedelic industry. But it’s a super exciting time to really kind of understand what do we know from kind of plant medicine and some of the previous lab work that has been done over the years, and really bringing in a whole new wave of focus research understanding to apply these to a whole host of mental health issues with conditions that we’re hoping to target and hopefully move the needle on in some pretty meaningful way. So excited about the industry excited for this conversation, excited to understand what they’re doing a tilera and kind of where they’re going with this industry. So with that, Chris, welcome to the program.

Chris Witowski
Thanks, Bruce. Glad to be here.

Bruce Eckfeldt
That’s a pleasure. Before we kind of dive into everything that’s going on today, and some of the research you’re doing and some of the interesting results you’re getting. Give us a little background. How did you I guess, how did you get into science? How did you get into psychedelics? What was the backstory here?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so I’ve always been very scientifically inclined, even from a young age, I grew up in Florida, and you know, there’s hurricanes every other year. So just kind of trying to figure out exactly what I wanted to do. And it was really in high school, took a upper level chemistry course that kind of sparked my interest and the hands on aspect of it, you know, it was sort of meant to be I would say and then you know, from there in college, studied environmental chemistry, got my bachelor’s degree, and then went into graduate work as in as a PhD researcher in a natural products chemistry laboratory. So trying to find new drugs from nature, we did a lot of microbial drug discovery, different plants, a lot of marine organisms doing diving, trying to collect, you know, organisms from whether it be Florida Keys, some of these actually came from the marine environment in our article, so I’m trying to find new compounds from there and seeing what they can be useful for. And really, you know, from my natural products, PhD, I didn’t really see myself going into the cannabis industry, but it was 2015 When I graduated, and obviously, that’s where you started to see a lot of momentum happening within the space. So from there, I actually joined a cannabis startup by the name of alt Med, they develop the move product line, and I was really their fifth employee. And, you know, five years later, you know, really helped them develop a lot of products develop unique IP around cannabinoid formulations, whether it be transdermal different inhalation products, Metered Dose inhalers and nebulizers, fast acting oral delivery systems. So, you know, it was about 2019, that I, you know, started to see a lot of the results happening with us ketamine, for depression, in this approval there. And then some of the work was psilocybin and quite outstanding results for long term remission of, of depression, end of life anxieties. And, you know, I’ve obviously got a lot of familiar kind of ties in the mental health space. I think a lot of people either have that themselves or know people that do but, you know, that was certainly a driving force and watching my brother’s struggle with antidepressants and depression and bipolar disorder for pretty much his entire life and realizing the limitations of the current SSRIs. You know, obviously there needs innovation and both myself and Dr. Jackie Vaughn, som who I’ve known for 10 years actually from our graduate work together, we decided in 2019 that the time is right for new innovations in psychedelics.

Bruce Eckfeldt
I’m curious what what did you learn from cannabis that you’ve been able to kind of apply to now in the psychedelic world? And what did you think you learned in cannabis that you tried to apply but maybe it didn’t work? I mean, give me give me a little bit of like, what transferred what didn’t transfer?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so certainly, formulation wise, I learned a lot in cannabis and the cannabinoids themselves are actually quite terrible drugs in the traditional pharmaceutical sense. You want drugs that are water soluble, meaning maybe a bit shorter of a half life and they’re excreted a little bit better than cannabinoids are So certainly working with those compounds was an eye opening experience and doing a lot of different things with self emulsifying, drug delivery systems, different transdermal delivery systems, which I hadn’t had any prior experience with. So, you know, on the science side, certainly in the formulation was eye opening, but really just kind of the emerging industry of cannabis. And you’re seeing a lot of those translate now into psychedelics. So, you know, being a part of a startup helping it grow from the fifth employee to over 700 certainly learned a lot about business. So kind of taking all those principles and now applying it to you know, this new emerging industry, which has a lot of potential.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah, and what didn’t translate so well, like as you look at the industry is how is how are psychedelics kind of developing differently than than cannabis did or what is notable in terms of how these industries are, are playing out.

Chris Witowski
I guess one thing that I’d be surprised about is you’re seeing a similar decriminalization model that you are in cannabis with psychedelics. I believe Washington now has pretty much decriminalized all drug use, not just psychedelics, which, you know, I think is a great thing. I think locking people up for drug use is a really bad use of resources. But it does give me a little bit of hesitation just because of the types of drugs that psychedelics are as compared to cannabinoids, you know, much different set and setting with those types of compounds. You know, maybe if you eat a ton of edibles, cannabis, or THC can be a psychedelic, but generally speaking, you know, they’re in a much different class where you can dissolve your yourself and your ego and your settings around you, which can be dangerous, if not, you know, done in a controlled setting. So I would say that has surprised me, you know, you’re seeing a lot of similar people from cannabis go into psychedelics, I’m certainly one of them myself, because, you know, they’re a schedule one drug, there’s a lot of research limitations around it. But as well, at least from a scientific standpoint, you know, there’s been 50 years of stagnant innovation. And you know, we have much better tools now to analyze these to study how the brain works, that we didn’t have in the 60s and 70s. So that part of it is really, really fascinating. As a scientist,

Bruce Eckfeldt
I’m sure what, I guess when we talk about psychedelics like what do you put in that camp, right? Because we’ve got all these kind of plant based derivatives, we’ve got lab based things, some of these things, maybe not even classified, technically as a psychedelic, but are kind of in the mix. Like, what do you put in this mix? And what’s most interesting to you?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so really, the classical psychedelics these would be LSD, psilocybin DMT. I would think these are what most people think of as psychedelics. compounds like ketamine are kind of grouped into the psychedelic category. In a lot of ways that makes sense, but ketamine works on a totally different set of receptors. Most classical psychedelics work directly on the serotonin system, where ketamine is working on NMDA and really doesn’t have any crossover to the serotonin system. Actually, strangely enough, ketamine was developed as a different alternative to PCP. So, you know, that’s, that’s obviously kind of fascinating, much more safe and tolerated than PCP is, but you know, whether those compounds be produced naturally or synthetically there, whether it’s natural psilocybin or synthetic psilocybin as a chemists, it’s the same thing. You know, one thing or one compound that we’re really focused on is Dimethyltryptamine DMT. And this is found in the which typically is the Ayahuasca brew, which contains two different plants, one containing DMT, and other one containing monoamine oxidase inhibitors. So you can actually ingest DMT and have the psychedelic experience. Really, I think one of the main reasons that DMT is overlooked is it can’t be dosed orally like say psilocybin can or even LSD, so it creates some limitations. But as drug formulators, myself and Dr. Jackie bond, som, you know, this really opens up a lot of opportunities to deliver these in new ways and create a lot of unique intellectual property around DMT. And so

Bruce Eckfeldt
what’s the difference in terms of how it actually impacts you? So if you look at like psilocybin, DMT, LSD, I mean, they’re all hitting the same receptors or what’s give us a sense of how they’re similar and how they’re different in terms of how they actually affect the human body. And then the thinking, yeah,

Chris Witowski
looking at the classical psychedelics, you know, you’ve got psilocybin, LSD and DMT. Really, it’s five each T to a is one particular receptor of the serotonin system that creates the visual hallucinations and so that activity is shared across all of these compounds. But if you really want to get in the nitty gritty chemistry of it, serotonin and LSD and psilocybin and DMT, they’re all very structurally similar. So it’s really the difference and how they interact with the other receptors. You know, there’s five HT one through five HT seven and a lot of subgroups of those about 14 and total We know of right now. So it’s not just the single receptor five HT to A, which gives you the psychedelic effects. It’s really the interplay or the entourage effect between how they interact with all those other receptors. And, you know, really, I don’t think anyone understands from a endpoint standpoint of how psychedelics have their lasting effects on mood, anxiety and depression. But, you know, one of the things that we’re looking to tackle is, I believe it’s really the interplay between these receptors that has the mechanism of action and the long term potential of how psychedelics work.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah. So where have you chosen to focus? So if you develop a business around this, you decide, okay, I’m going to we’re going to work on these areas, we’re going to produce this stuff to try to investigate these areas, how have you kind of sliced up the world and decided where you’re going to focus on what you’re going to be developing? Sure.

Chris Witowski
So DMT, like I mentioned, is one of the compounds we are focused on. So creating new delivery formats, one of this is transdermal. So this would be a patch that you can wear multiple days, we’re targeting a sub psychedelic dose, and we’re actually going to be getting this into the clinic at the first half of 2022. So really excited about this particular project. You know, we’re also looking at other ways to deliver DMT, which from a clinical setting is usually through intravenous needles and combining a psychedelic drug with a very invasive delivery format, there’s already enough stigma as it is. So another way we’re looking at this is actually intra nasal and developing some pharmaceutically relevant formulations to deliver it that way. So we’ll be doing some early stage animal readouts to determine dosage for that particular delivery mechanism. And that’s what DMT and, you know, we’re also creating new derivatives to DMT. And psilocybin, these would be chemical modifications that we make in the lab. And like I mentioned, it’s not just a single receptor five HT to a that creates hallucinations. It’s really the interplay. And we can now take these compounds and screen them virtually using computers, and see how they target five HT to a or five HT to be five HT six, all these various receptors and start to develop a target product profile for new compounds that have the biological effects that we want, whether it be you know, substance use disorder or depression, but also reduce some of the side effects like hallucinations, that five HT to a or even with five HT to B, which has actually some heart valvular issues over the long term. So trying to make drugs that really have reduced effects there. So we’ve created a good number of these compounds in the lab already. And we’re starting to do some early stage animal readouts, which, you know, we’re again, we’re really excited and developing this computational platform, we’re able to develop and screened compounds at a much faster rate than we could if we were sitting there synthesizing hundreds and 1000s of compounds and testing them biologically to see if they have any effects. So it really gives us kind of an early stage prediction that we wouldn’t have otherwise.

Bruce Eckfeldt
And is this pretty standard in pharmaceutical research, and we give you a comparison on this is how it’s always been done, and how much this is really different given that we’re in psychedelics and in the world that we’re in today.

Chris Witowski
So you’re starting to see it being more adopted, just because like I mentioned, I mean, technology makes our lives a lot easier, a lot more straightforward, better throughput, so you are starting to see it. And, you know, it also correlates to our computational power now that we have, that movie didn’t have maybe 1015 years ago. So we’re able to run these simulations at a much faster rate than we could say, 10 years ago, you know, the field of computational chemistry has been around for a couple of decades, but you’re really starting to see better correlations to the biological data that you ultimately get once you create these compounds and put them in animals or humans. So you know, there are a few select maybe major pharmaceutical companies that are using it. But at this point, there aren’t many people that are really applying this to psychedelics, you know, compounds that interact in the brain with the various serotonin receptors and looking at the biological outcomes long term that these can have in humans.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah. And what was it take to actually put this together? I mean, what did you have to amass in terms of resources, capital people, facilities? What does it look like to actually stand a company like this up?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, certainly, it takes some smart people to do that. And I wouldn’t necessarily classify myself as one of those with computational chemistry. It’s, it’s quite physics heavy, which was never my strong suit. That’s kind of like Joe’s chemistry. But thankfully, my co founder, Dr. Vaughn, som, she’s done a lot of this work in her previous academic role in graduate school as well as even in the cannabis industry in connecting you know, the various metabolites in a cannabis extract to you know, what you see in the end patient and it’s basically the indica versus sativa thing and, you know, developing some chemical signatures or compounds that can be useful for specific biological effects. So she he’s obviously been very instrumental in getting this set up. We also have Dr. Bryce Allen, who is a Harvard was a Harvard postdoc work that silicone therapeutics really is a bioinformatics specialist and computational chemistry is, is really what he does day in and day out. We also have Dr. Steven Austin, who is a molecular bio physicist, which M and I having conversations is like, you know, you better get out the sock puppets. But really, what he focuses on is protein dynamics. And, you know, really most computational chemistry is you crystallize a protein, and it’s a static, non moving structure, but now applying physics to that particular protein, so it can move in a more natural state. And I think that’s really kind of the next frontier of where we see computational chemistry going. Because really, this is how you relate a more fluid and more reproducible biological system. So now we’re starting to incorporate some of those principles into our drug discovery platform, which is again, really, really exciting. And, you know, I think this is going to be honestly how drug discovery drug development drug design happens in the future. And, you know, trying to correlate this to psychedelics is probably going to be challenging, but you know, we’re definitely up for it.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah. What is the process look like? I mean, give me a sense of, like, what are the stages? How many, I mean, you’re looking at hundreds of 1000s of different options, winnowing them down, I mean, what what are the, what are the stages that you put this stuff through?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so it really starts with having a crystal structure of a protein, let’s use five HT to a the serotonin receptor. And this is actually published with LSD bound within the receptor. So now you do X ray crystallography. And you see where all the atoms are the protein of LSD within the protein. And now, the LSD sits within the active site. So LSD obviously is active and creates hallucinations. So now you can take out LSD and create a compound, virtually using computers, and then put it back into that protein and see how well it binds compared to LSD or other other known compounds. You know, really the blessing that we have is psychedelics have been around for a long time, people have done a lot of research on this, frankly, not recently. So we have a lot of experimental data to correlate and actually validate this step of computational binding or docking, as they say, and that’s just one part of it. We also screen for drug ability, you know, whether these are going to hit other toxic side products that we’re not interested in? Are they able to be dosed orally? Can they cross the blood brain barrier? What’s their water solubility? Like, this is a very important aspect for drug development. So we’re looking at all these kind of simultaneously. And, you know, we can screen you know, a compound a minute, whereas, you know, synthesizing this and going through biological receptors would take, I mean, we’d have to have, you know, a pharmaceutical level company with hundreds of synthetic chemists and biologists screening what we can do in a single day.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah. Yeah. So the whole technology really is accelerating this whole process. It sounds like not only for you, but for the market in general. Yeah,

Chris Witowski
yeah. And it’s really going to take a lot of work and a lot of data to correlate a psychedelic compound to a mechanism of action, which I believe is kind of the holy grail for this, because, again, no one really knows, we know what creates psychedelic effects. We know it has long term benefits, but kind of what happens in there. You know, some people point to neuroplasticity, basically, your brain’s ability to create new neuronal pathways. And this is part of it. You know, it’s it’s really an under explored field, and whoever figures this out is kind of won a Nobel Prize one day, and maybe it’s us, maybe it’s someone else, but I’m rooting for whoever that is.

Bruce Eckfeldt
And what’s what’s the end game? Alright, for you. It’s how do you take the work that you’re doing now? And actually bring it to market as a money making business? Like, how does this play out for you?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, we see ourselves as a biotechnology company. So it is sort of a longer term play, you’re not going to be able to generate revenue early stage. So obviously, having investment money come in, and thankfully, we’re in a very good space with psychedelics a lot of people are interested in, we also have a pretty good team and a really good IP strategy. So that’s helpful. So we’re really set up at least in the short term to get our DMT patch into the clinic, get some early stage animal data with some of these new compounds and identify, you know, which one or two of those we can take into the clinic and, and put them into humans. You know, from there, there’s a myriad of ways that it could go, you know, frankly, we’ve we’ve had conversations with larger biotech, pharmaceutical companies. So there is interest in the space from them. And I know some people will say, maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s a bad thing. But certainly, you know, working with a larger company with better resources to develop and commercialize a drug is something that’s very attractive for a small biotech company like ourselves. Sure, longer term we are cognizant of, you know, having the right amount of capital to facilitate our later stage clinical trials which are quite Spensive so, you know, the public markets are an option at some point as well,

Bruce Eckfeldt
yeah. What does it take these days? I mean, if you look at, you know, full phase three clinical trial getting to that point, like, what, what does it take in terms of time, resources capital to get there,

Chris Witowski
I mean, most people generalize it as a billion dollars in 10 years to get one drug to market. But that also takes into account the failures along the way, you know, about one in 10 drugs from phase one will actually make it into a phase three and be approved. The good thing with psychedelics is they do have a really great underlying safety profile, they are quite effective for specific disorders. So that cuts out a lot of the failure part of it. You know, I think in our best case, we can certainly look to market something 2025 2026. So that’s sort of the timeline that we’re looking at to commercialize a drug, certainly, we can accelerate that with, with maybe a larger partner coming on board. And these licensing opportunities is something that, you know, we’re looking at from a business development standpoint, to certainly facilitate and, you know, direct some of our own development, because, like I mentioned, to bring a drug to market, it takes a lot of capital to do

Bruce Eckfeldt
that. Yeah, exactly. And what are the conditions that you’re most looking for, that you’re looking at, or that you find, you know, most applicable right now and the work that you’re doing.

Chris Witowski
So for DMT patch, we’re going into a phase one study, so we don’t necessarily have to choose an indication. But one of the things we are focused on and there is some animal data to support it is anxiety disorders. So DMT is actually the only psychedelic that I’m aware of at this point, that actually has this neuroplasticity effect, the ability to regrow brain cells or redirect brain cells at sub psychedelic doses. And, you know, this was related to LSD to psilocybin to ketamine to doI to a host of other commonly known psychedelics. So there is some very interesting activity around DMT that a lot of other compounds don’t have the so what we’re trying to do with a patch is create you know, sub psychedelic dosages that we could administer outside of the clinic. Because, you know, over time, I believe there is going to be a bit of a hurdle trying to get, you know, the millions of people that have depression or PTSD into the clinic to undergo these day long psychedelic treatments. So really looking at trying to get something outside of the clinic and more traditional sense, I think you’re going to see better adoption from insurance companies, which at least in the US really aren’t as progressive in terms of psychiatric and mental health disorders, for counseling and things like that,

Bruce Eckfeldt
what have been the big challenges as you as you get into the research, as you’re looking at the development of these things, I mean, other than just kind of the pure, heavy lifting of doing the drug research or coming up with the molecules to actually do the research around, like, what other challenges come up around the business to really get this, you know, make this work or get this effective, or get to the point that you need to get to,

Chris Witowski
from a research standpoint, most of these psychedelics are scheduled on drugs, so at least in the US, you can just easily access to these and test them for research purposes. Thankfully, we are working at the University of South Florida, so we’re part of their incubator program. So we have the DEA approval as part of the university to do the research we need. So that was a hurdle. And, you know, we’re very thankful for the resources that the university provides, both in personnel as well as this licensure, you know, I think you’re starting to see a more favorable outlook from the FDA in regards to psychedelic treatments. So currently, MDMA, which is ecstasy, is in phase three clinical trials for PTSD. And I believe it’s about 70% of the patients after two to three doses of MDMA are no longer are no longer qualified as PTSD patients after a year of two or three doses. Similarly, with psilocybin and phase two trials, it’s about the 70%, as well after one or two doses, and these lasts for a year. So it’s not like something you have to do repetitively, they’re only at that one year timeframe, because that’s kind of where they are on their clinical trials. So you know, I really think the FDA is open to this types of treatments, you know, it is a little bit of a different path than most people are taking, you know, I do think there are going to be some challenges in administering these treatments in a clinic, because, you know, you can’t just take psilocybin and go home with it from a pharmaceutical standpoint,

Bruce Eckfeldt
but you may have some problems the rest of the day, right.

Chris Witowski
So yeah, most of the ways these are being designed and the FDA trials is under physician care, under their observation you you have a couple of meetings with their clinician beforehand to understand what your problems are to get you in the right state of mind for this treatment, then you have basically a full day under the drug experience with psychotherapy with the the clinician there and then a couple of follow up they call reintegration to kind of make rational sense of of your experience. Yeah. And I think with MDMA and maps is the company actually doing this as a nonprofit? Have it, I think it’s something like 100 clinical hours are needed for a single patient. So you have to have two clinicians supervise one patient and this. So the way these are being developed, so it is kind of resource intensive. And, again, there’s a little bit of a slow adoption by insurance companies to reimburse these types of therapies, you’re starting to see it with s ketamine, which is approved for depression. You know, there are a lot of ketamine clinics out there now. But these are generally all out of pocket. So really having that insurance coverage is going to be a huge lift to the industry. So one of the things we’re we’re focused on, again, is trying to develop some compounds that we can dose outside of a clinic. And I think there’s going to be better access, better adoption and less stigmatization, ultimately. Yeah. And you’re,

Bruce Eckfeldt
I mean, I guess, what’s your conclusion on the ability of sub kind of sub psychedelic, you know, solutions? I guess, how much is the psychedelic element of these compounds needed for the therapeutic benefit? And how much do you just need the kind of underlying cellular regeneration neuroplasticity element? Like, wait, where are you finding the what actually drives the therapeutic outcomes?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so you are starting to see, I would say, a pretty strong correlation between these really high doses of psychedelics for long term benefits and depression. And for PTSD, you know, you can also correlate substance abuse into that as well. And I think it’s all part of the concurrent talk therapy, because really, what it does is it creates new patterns of thinking. So a depressed patient, they kind of have these negative thought patterns. So what psychedelics do is they sort of recreate a new thought pattern in association with the talk therapy. You know, I think with smaller doses will say micro doses, you’re not going to get that huge, radical shift kind of thing. Yeah. So I think for smaller doses, things like anxiety disorder can be very useful. And that’s one of the things we’re looking at for DMT. And in terms of creating compounds without psychedelic effects, you know, you can actually still have this neuroplastic effects, even with ketamine, and ketamine doesn’t interact at all with the serotonin receptor system. So you know, creating drugs that don’t have psychedelic effects, but can also create new neuron pathways, I think we can do that. And, you know, there is some evidence now being supported with various DMT derivatives that aren’t psychedelic, but also have benefits on mood disorder. They don’t have as long of a duration, say, you know, one dose one year that you do for psychedelics, but again, if you’re creating something that can be dosed outside of the clinic, you know, this is something that can be dosed a little more reproducibly. And again, outside of the clinic is going to be a hurdle.

Bruce Eckfeldt
Yeah, I get it. And tell us about some of the research you’re doing now. And what’s what’s been coming up? What are some of the things you’re learning most recently?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so you know, I mentioned these non psychedelic psychedelics. And we created these now in the lab, and we’re doing some early stage animal testing. And, you know, we’ve seen with our computational platform, which we call brain, the bio receptor activity intelligence network, so brain is a much better acronym for it. And, and that’s really the combination of all the computational chemistry and virtual screening that we do. So we’ve identified some compounds that aren’t psychedelic. And now we’ve created these and are starting to see some readouts and animals and the main way to test for hallucinogenic effects, obviously, instead of dosing in humans and seeing what happens, but ultimately, you have to go through animal testing before you get to that stage is we’ve done some early stage studies with our one of our compounds, and we’re seeing non hallucinogenic effects, no head twitches, no real other behavioral changes, you know, we have some reports of anxiety lytic effects. So we’re doing some more tests to see if potentially can be used for anxiety or depression. So this is partly validation to what we’re seeing computationally, which is really great. But you know, again, you really need the biological outcomes, to lead the drug discovery project. So we’re really happy to see that. And then on the DMT front, we’re actually in the process of submitting an investigational new drug with the FDA to begin a clinical trial next year in 2022. So, you know, all of these things are kind of shaping up, research, development is never easy, but in a lot of ways, you know, our pipeline has come together more streamlined than I was anticipating. So that’s always reassuring as a scientist, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna knock on wood, as I’m saying that

Bruce Eckfeldt
just in case, Chris, it’s a real pleasure. If people want to find out more about you about the work that you’re doing. What’s the best way to get that information?

Chris Witowski
Yeah, so they can visit our website. It’s solera.com. That’s p s i l e. r a.com. You can find us on all the social media platforms just search Solera or you can contact our website at info@solera.com. Great,

Bruce Eckfeldt
make sure that everything there is in the show notes so people can get that information. Highly encourage everyone to check it out. Chris, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time today.

Chris Witowski
You YouTubers I appreciate it. Thank you.

Outro
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